The full transcript of the papal press conference of Antananarivo (Madagascar) in Rome:

Matteo Bruni, Director of the Press Office of the Holy See: Hello, Holy Father. During these days we were able to meet many people from these African lands of the Indian Ocean. It is a population with a lot of young people, a lot of children and babies. People full of enthusiasm and hope. People full of enthusiasm and real hope thanks to the young people. We have also seen many injuries. You touched them with your hand and in your speeches. And with the journalists, we have seen many signs of resurrection, reconciliation and peace. Journalists, your fellow travelers, have followed the events of these days closely and shared with the world the stories, faces and themes they have encountered, helping to take Mozambique a step further. and Africa, Madagascar and Mauritius at the center of international attention. I thank them, the journalists, for their work done with passion and effort, and I now give them the floor for some questions they wish to ask you. First of all to the journalists who come from the countries where we were.

Pope Francis: First of all, I want to thank the group: thank you.

Bruni: The first reporter to ask a question is Julio Manjate from Noticias del Mozambico.

Julio Mateus Manjate (News from Mozambique): Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Mozambican journalists who accompanied the pope. During the trip to Mozambique, you were able to speak with the President of Mozambique and meet the leaders of the two parties represented in parliament. I would like to know what are your expectations after this meeting with regard to the peace process and what message do you want to leave in Mozambique? And I would like to ask two comments: on African xenophobia and on youth, the impact of social networks on the education of young people.

Pope Francis: The first point concerns the peace process. Today, Mozambique is identified with the long process of peace that has had its ups and downs, but has finally succeeded in this historic embrace. I hope that continues and I pray for it. I invite everyone to make an effort to advance this peace process.

Because everything is lost by war, everything is won by peace, said one of my predecessors. This motto is clear. Do not forget it. It was a very long peace process because you had to go through a first step, then a fall, then another, and the efforts of the leaders of the opposing parties – not to mention the enemies – to find each other were also dangerous. some risked their lives, but we finally arrived.

I would like to thank all the people who have contributed to this peace process from the beginning, from the beginning that started in a cafe. It started in a café where people spoke to a priest from the Sant'Egidio Movement, who will become a cardinal on 5 October. [Ed. note: he refers here to Cardinal-elect Archbishop Matteo Zuppi of Bologna]. Then, with the help of many people, including in the Sant'Egidio movement, this result happened.

We must not be triumphalist in these areas. Triumph is peace. We do not have the right to be triumphalist because peace is still fragile in your country as in the world. It is fragile and must be treated "with brushstrokes", as for children, with a lot of tenderness, with great delicacy, with a lot of forgiveness, with a lot of patience to make it grow and be robust. But it is the triumph of the country; peace is the victory of the country. We must identify this. And this applies to all countries destroyed by war. Wars destroy and everything is lost. I am stretching a little on this subject of peace because it is close to my heart.

A few months ago, during the Normandy landings celebration, it was true that the heads of government commemorated the beginning of the end of a cruel war and an inhuman and cruel dictatorship like Nazism and fascism. But on this beach there were forty-six thousand soldiers. The price of war I confess that when I went to the Redipuglia [War Memorial] to see the first world war, I cried. Please, do not ever war again. When I went to Anzio to celebrate the Day of the Soul, my heart felt like that. We must work with this consciousness: wars do not solve anything. Indeed, they make profits for people who do not value humanity. Excuse me for this addendum, but I had to say it before a peace process, which, I pray, will continue and I hope to stay strong. The second was …

Manjate: What do you think about the problem of educating young people in Africa?

Pope Francis: The problem of youth. Africa is a young continent, it has a young life. If we make a comparison with Europe, as I said in Strasbourg, the mother Europe becomes almost Europe grandmother, she is getting older. we are living a very serious demographic winter in Europe. I do not know in which country, but it is an official statistic of the government of this country: in 2050, there will be more retirees than working people. It's tragic. How is it, what is the origin of this aging Europe?

I have a personal opinion: I think that wealth is the root, sticking to wealth. (Yes, but I'm fine, I do not have children because I have to buy a house, I have to travel, that, that, a child is a risk, you never know … the wealth and the tranquility, but it's a wealth that makes you grow old.

Instead, Africa is full of life. In Africa, I found a gesture that I found in the Philippines and Cartagena in Colombia: people raised children, they showed you children. It's my treasure, it's my victory, my pride. It is the treasure of the poor, the child. But it is the treasure of the homeland. The same gesture that I saw in Eastern Europe, in Iasi [Romania]especially this grandmother who showed me the child is my triumph.

You have the challenge of educating these young people and legislating for these young people. Education right now is a priority in your country, it's a priority. The development of education laws is a priority.

The Mauritian Prime Minister said that he was thinking about the challenge of developing a free education system for all. A free education system is important because there are high-level educational centers, but at a cost. There are free educational centers, but it is necessary to multiply them so that education can reach everyone. The laws on health and education are essential right now.

The third thing, xenophobia. I have read articles about this problem of xenophobia in newspapers. But it's not just an African problem, it's a human disease, like measles. It's a disease, it comes to you, enters a country, enters a continent. And we erected walls. And the walls isolate those who build them. Yes, they leave out a lot of people, but those who stay inside the walls are left alone and at the end of history, defeated by powerful invasions.

But xenophobia is a disease: a "justifiable" disease, in quotation marks. But that's it. The purity of the race, for example, to name a xenophobia of the last century. Xenophobia is often motivated by political populism. I said last week, or the other week, that I sometimes heard speeches that resembled those of Hitler in 1934. We see that there is a chorus in Europe, but also in Africa.

In addition, in Africa, you must solve another cultural problem. I remember that I talked about it in Kenya: tribalism. We must educate, approach the different tribes to make a nation. Some time ago, we celebrated the 25th anniversary of the tragedy in Rwanda. An effect of tribalism. I remember in Kenya, in the stadium, when I asked everyone to stand up, take their hand and say, "No tribalism, no tribalism," we should say no.

It is also a closure and even a xenophobia, a domestic xenophobia, but it is still a xenophobia. You should fight against this: both xenophobia from one country to another and xenophobia internally and, in the case of certain places in Africa, tribalism that leads us to the Rwandan tragedy, for example.

Bruni: The second question comes from Ms. Ratoarivelo from Madagascar.

Marie Fredeline Ratovoarivelo (Radio Don Bosco, Madagascar): Your Holiness, you spoke about the future of young people during your apostolic visit. I think that the foundation of a family tends to arrive later. Currently in Madagascar, many young people live in a very complex family: because of poverty, parents are very busy, [indistinguishable] young people, [indistinguishable] Family values. How can the Church help accompany young people in family crises, because they think [the reason] is the sexual revolution of today. Thank you, Holy Father.

Pope Francis: Yes, the family is definitely the key to that … in the education of children. The expression of young people is touching. We saw it in Madagascar and also in Mauritius. And even young people on the Mozambique side. Interreligious youth for peace. Give values ​​to young people. To help them grow … In Madagascar, this is related to the problem of the family, the problem of poverty. Lack of work and also exploitation, often at work. How many obstacles there are, for example in granite quarries, those who work and earn a dollar and even half a dollar a day. Labor laws, laws that protect the family, are fundamental. And also family values, which are there, but often destroyed by poverty … values ​​are not destroyed … but there may be an absence. Youth education, advance them.

At Akamasoa … we saw what in Akamasoa … working with the youngest children that they raise … to start a family so that children can grow up artificially [makes quotes gesture] family, really, but that was the only possibility, right?

Yesterday in Mauritius, after Mass, when I left, I found Mgr. Rueda with a big, tall policeman who was holding a little girl of two years or so. She was lost and crying because they could not find her parents. The police announced that they were coming and at that time, they were holding her in their arms … And there I saw the tragedy of many children and young people who lose their family ties, while They live in a family, they lose them for a moment, this accident, only … and also the role of the state to welcome them, to move them forward. The state should look after the family, young people, it is a duty of the state, is not it? It's a duty to move them forward.

And then, I repeat: for a family, having a child is a treasure and you have that awareness. You are aware of the treasure. But now, it is necessary for the whole society to be conscious of developing this treasure so that the country develops, the homeland develops, and the values ​​that give sovereignty to the homeland develop. I do not know if I already answered, but … it's a problem of children that touched me in the three countries. And that people were greeting me. But there were kids like that [gestures], little ones and they even greeted me. They came in joy. On the joy I would like to speak later, thank you.

Bruni: The third question comes from Mr. Mutusami from Mauritius:

Jean Luc Mootoosamy (Radio One, Mauritius): I want to thank you. My question concerns the situation of the Chagos Islands. You mentioned the people of Chagos in a message of thanks. The Prime Minister thanked you for recalling the suffering of the people of Chagos, those of the islands occupied by Great Britain. Today, it is an active military base. How can we help the Chagos to come back?

Pope Francis: I would like to repeat the doctrine of the Church, namely that international organizations, when we understand, we give them the ability to judge at the international level. We think for example of the International Court of AJA, and often also at the United Nations, when they speak. If we are a humanity, we should obey. It is true that things do not always look good for the whole of humanity, they are also good for our pockets, but you must obey the international institutions, the United Nations was created for that, the international tribunals were created [for this]. Because when there is an internal flight between countries, it must be solved as civilized brothers. Then there is another phenomenon – I speak clearly – but I do not know if it is a phenomenon in this case.

Now I will leave aside this case, I said that what seems right to me, to go to international organizations. But there is another phenomenon: when the liberation of a people arrives and the dominant state has to leave Africa, there are many free, from France, from Britain, from Belgium, from Italy and they had to leave. Some have gone well, but in each of them, there is always the temptation to carry something in their pockets: yes, I leave the freedom to this people but a few crumbs I wear.

For example, I give freedom to the country, but from the ground, the basement remains mine. To give you an example, I do not know if it's true, but to give an example … There is always this temptation. I believe that international organizations must also carry out an accompanying process, recognizing what the dominant powers have done for this country and recognizing the will to leave, and helping them to go totally, freely, in fraternity. . But it is the slowness of the cultural work of humanity and the international institutions help us a lot, always, and we must continue, strengthening the international institutions, the United Nations which takes again, affirming that the European Union will be stronger in the sense of domination, but in the sense of justice, fraternity and unity. This is one of the most important things, but I would like to add something to that.

Yes, today, there is no more geographical colonization, at least not so much, there is no … but there are ideological settlements that want to enter the culture of the people , change this culture and homogenize humanity. It is the image of globalization as a sphere: all equal, all points equidistant from the center. Instead, true globalization is not a sphere, but a polyhedron in which every people and nation retains its very identity but is united to all humanity, while ideological colonization seeks to erase The identity of others to make them equal. And they come with ideological proposals that go against the nature of this people, the history of this people and the values ​​of that people. We must respect the identity of the people and this is a premise we must always respect: the identity of the people must be respected and we ban all colonization.

Before giving the floor to EFE, it is the favored [news agency] of this trip (he is old, 80 years old), I would like to say another thing, what I would like to say about the trip.

In your country [Mauritius]the capacity for unity and interreligious dialogue really touched me. You can not erase the difference of religions, but you insist on the fact that we are all brothers and that we should all speak. This is a sign of the maturity of your country. Speaking with Prime Minister yesterday, I was amazed at how they developed this reality, but they live it as a necessity to live together. And you have an intercultural commission.

One anecdote, the first thing I found yesterday when entering the chancery was a bouquet of beautiful flowers. Who sent them? The great imam. To be brothers The human fraternity that is at the base and respects all believers. Religious respect is important. For that, I say to the missionaries: do not proselytize. Proselytism applies to politics, sport, "come into my team", but not to faith.

But what does it mean for you, pope, what does evangelization mean? It's a phrase of St. Francis that has enlightened me a lot. St. Francis of Assisi said to his brethren, "Preach the gospel, if it is necessary also with words." In other words, to evangelize is what we read in the book of the Acts of the Apostles. Witness. And this witness causes questions. But why do you live like this? Why are you doing this? And I explain to them: For the gospel. The proclamation comes after the testimony. First to live as a Christian and they ask you, you say it. The testimony is the first step. The missionary is not the protagonist of evangelism, it is the Holy Spirit that allows Christians and missionaries to give testimony. So the questions come or do not come. But witness of life. This is the first step. It is important to avoid proselytism. When you see religious proposals that go in the direction of proselytism, they are not Christian. They seek proselytes, not worshipers of God and truth, witness. j & # 39; uses [this moment] Say this about your interreligious experience, that it is very beautiful and that the Prime Minister has said to me, when they ask for help, we give the same to everyone and nobody Offusque because they feel brothers. And this creates unity in a country. It is very important. Very, very important Even during the meetings, there were not only Catholics, but also Muslims, Hindus and other religions. Everyone was there, brothers.

I found in Madagascar, in the act of youth peace, that young people of different religions wanted to express how they live their desire for peace. Peace, fraternity, interreligious coexistence. No proselytism. These are things we should learn for coexistence. That's one thing I should say. Then it touched me and I made a reference.

And then, in your country and in the three countries, but I take one, Madagascar, because we started from there: the people. In the streets there were people. Self-summoned. At mass at the stadium, in the rain, there were people. Dancing in the rain, they were happy, happy. I take it back [with me]. And even at the evening vigil and at Mass, they exceeded the million people present. So, they say, official statistics say it. I do not know. I would say a little less. We were 800,000. But I do not care about the number. I care about people, those who walked there the afternoon of the previous year, who were at the vigil and slept there. I was thinking about Rio de Janeiro in 2013, when people were sleeping on the beach and I was thinking about people. They wanted to be with the pope. In truth, I feel humbled, very small in front of this greatness of the supremacy of the people. And what is the sign that a group of people is a people? Joy.

There were poor people, there were people who had not eaten that afternoon to be there, but they were happy. In summary, when groups of people separate from this popular feeling of joy, they lose joy, this is one of the first signs, the sadness of lonely people. The sadness of anyone who has forgotten his cultural roots. People. To have the consciousness of being a people, is to be aware of an identity, of a way to understand the reality. It brings people together. But the sign that you are among the people and not among the elite is joy. Common joy. I wanted to emphasize that. And that's why the children greeted each other like this, because their parents contaminated them with joy. Thank you, here's what I wanted to say on this trip. Then, if something else comes to me, I'll tell you. Now the favorite [Ed. note: he refers here to Cristina Cabrejas of the Spanish news agency EFE].

Cristina Cabrejas (EFE): Thank you Holy Father for this opportunity. I have two questions. First of all, we assume that one of your future plans is a visit to Spain. I also wanted to ask you what you expect from tomorrow 's information industry.

Pope Francis: I would need a crystal ball to answer. I hope that I will go to Spain if I am still alive, but my priority in Europe are the smaller nations. This is the priority.

I do not know what the information industry will look like in the future, but I think back to what it was like when I was a child, for example, without television, radio and newspapers …. Even with clandestine newspapers banned by the ruling government, newspapers would be sold at night with volunteers. And the oral transmission of news also existed, although compared to the press sector today, it seems very precarious, just like today's may seem a day compared to that of the future.

What remains however … [Ed. note: he begins speaking in Spanish] … What remains as a key element of the communications industry is the ability to inform the public of the occurrence of an event and to distinguish these facts from the interpretation. One of the things that harms communication is the interpretation of past, present, and future.

A very interesting study, published three years ago by Simone Paganini, language specialist at the University of …, talks about the mobility of communications, the way a message changes, a story. She takes a novel. There is the writer, the novel and the protagonist, and the situation then mobilizes.

Because communication is always a "mobile" thing, it's extremely easy to move from facts to interpretation. And this is hurting the information industry. It is important to stick to the facts and one must always try to adjust to the facts.

We, too, at the Curia: when there is a fact, it is said, but it is embellished, everyone adds his embellishment. Not with bad intentions, but that is the dynamics. The mission of the journalist is therefore always to stick to the facts: "The fact is the following, my interpretation is the following, that's what you said." distinguishes you from the storyteller because the interpretation is not good.

Once, I told the story of Little Red Riding Hood, but from the point of view of an interpreter. So, the story is over with Little Red Riding Hood and his grandmother toasting with the wolf. In short: the interpretation changes the facts.

This study by Simone Paganini is pretty good. These are considerations that concern all types of communication: fidelity to facts.

"We say that …" Can this be used? It can be used by journalists, but we must also have the honesty to check the objectivity of "we say that" or do we not know if it is said? Objectivity is another value that must be guaranteed in communications.

Secondly, communication must remain human, totally human. And when I say human, I mean constructive. That is to say that it must be for the other. The information industry can not be used as an instrument of war. It is inhuman, it destroys. The other day, I commented with Father Rueda an article on the destructive capacity of language, such as arsenic drops. Communication must serve construction, not destruction. When is communication at the service of destruction? When, for example, he defends inhuman projects. Think, for example, of the propaganda of dictatorships of the last century. Dictatorships were very skilled in communication. In Argentina, we say "they sell in the center". They fomented wars, divisions, they were destructive. I do not know what to say technically. I am not an expert on the subject.

But both for the radio that I listened to in my childhood and for the media of the future, it is the same thing: coherence with the facts.

Cabrejas: One of the themes of this trip was the protection of the natural environment. You talked about it in all your speeches, even with young people. You talked about protecting trees from fire, deforestation. At the same time, the same things are happening in the Amazon. Do you think that the governments of these Amazon regions are doing all they can, as here in Africa, to protect this lung in the world?

Pope Francis: [Ed. note: He returns to speaking in Italian.] I'm going back to Africa. I said it in another trip: there is a "collective unconscious" with the motto: "Africa must be exploited". It's an unconscious thing. We do not think: "Europe must be exploited", not please. No, "Africa must be exploited". We must liberate humanity from this collective unconscious.

The strong point of this exploitation, not only in Africa, but all over the world, is the natural environment. The natural environment … deforestation, the destruction of biodiversity. A few months ago, I had an audience with sea chaplains. There were seven fishermen fishing in a boat that was more than that plane. They fished with modern mechanical means. A few adventurers … And they told me this: "A few months ago today, we took six tons of plastic." At the Vatican, we banned plastic. We are working on this here. Six tons of plastic, but that's the reality. Only in the oceans. Plastics in the oceans … This is the Pope's prayer intention for this month, precisely the protection of the oceans that also gives us the oxygen we breathe.

Then there are the big lungs of humanity. One in Central Africa, one in Brazil throughout the Amazon region, and then there is one that I can not remember very well. They are small lungs of the same kind.

Defend the ecology, the biodiversity that is our life, defend the oxygen. It seems like an illusion … the biggest fight is biodiversity. The defense of the natural environment is provided by young people who have a great conscience because they say: "The future belongs to us … Do what you want with your future, but not ours". They start thinking a little bit about the question.

Then come the Paris Agreement, which is a good step forward. Then the newest ones in Katowice were also good. These are meetings that help to raise awareness. Last year, in the summer, when I saw this picture of a ship sailing to the North Pole, as if nothing had happened, I felt distressed. And recently, a few months ago, we all saw the photographs of the funerals that took place in Greenland, where some glaciers no longer exist. They made a symbolic funeral act to attract attention.

Now this quickly … We must become aware, starting with small things, small consciences. Your question: "Do the leaders do everything?" Some more, others less. It's true that … there is something that I have to say about the exploitation of the environment … I was moved by the article from Il Messaggero the 10th, the day of our departure, that Franca did not spare the words[Ednote:lepapeseréfèreicià[Ednote:Thepoperefershereto[Ednote:lepapeseréfèreicià[Ednote:ThepoperefersheretoIl Messaggero Franca Giansoldati journalist], speaking of destructive maneuvers of rapacity …

But it's not only in Africa, but also in our cities, in our societies. And the ugly ugly word, it's corruption. I have to do that, but to do that, I have to override, the other, the other. I need the approval of the government or the provincial and national governments I do not know and ask the manager … The question … I literally repeat what a Spanish entrepreneur told me. The question we hear when we approve a project is: "How much for me?

It happens in Africa, in Latin America, even in Europe, everywhere. When one assumes socio-political responsibility as a personal benefit, values ​​are exploited, nature is exploited, so that many people are exploited. We think of Africa, which must be exploited, but think of so many exploited workers in our societies. African corporations did not invent it! We have them in Europe.

Le domestique qui reçoit un tiers de ce qu'il devrait être n'a pas été inventé par les Africains. Les femmes trompées et exploitées pour se prostituer au centre de nos villes n’ont pas été inventées par les Africains. C'est aussi de nous, de tout le monde, de nous aussi, il y a cette exploitation qui est non seulement environnementale, mais aussi humaine. Et c'est de la corruption. Lorsque la corruption entre dans nos cœurs, préparons-nous à tout.


Pape François: Ils me disent que nous devons nous arrêter… Attendons un peu, assieds-toi un peu. Je ne veux pas y aller. Je ne veux pas que vous pensiez que c’est un stratagème pour vous en sortir… j’ai parlé pendant une heure. Laissons quelques minutes de plus pour être calme.

[At this point, there was a momentary pause in the press conference due to turbulence.]

Bruni: La prochaine question vient de Jason Horowitz du New York Times, qui est ici.

Jason Horowitz (New York Times): Bonjour, Saint Père. Dans l'avion à destination de Maputo, vous avez reconnu avoir été attaqué par un secteur de l'église américaine. De toute évidence, il y a de fortes critiques, et il y a même des cardinaux et des évêques, TV [stations], Catholiques, sites Web américains – nombreuses critiques. Même des alliés très proches ont parlé d'un complot contre vous, certains de vos alliés dans la curie italienne. Y a-t-il quelque chose que ces critiques ne comprennent pas à propos de votre pontificat, ou y a-t-il quelque chose que vous avez appris des critiques? [coming from] les États Unis? Autre chose, craignez-vous un schisme dans l’Église américaine et si oui, pouvez-vous faire quelque chose, dialoguer pour l’éviter?

Pape François: Premièrement, les critiques aident toujours, toujours, quand on reçoit une critique, il devrait immédiatement faire une autocritique et dire ceci: pour moi, est-ce vrai ou est-ce vrai, jusqu'à quel point? Des critiques, je vois toujours les avantages. Parfois, vous vous fâchez, mais les avantages sont là.

Puis, lors du voyage pour Maputo, l’un d’entre vous est venu… c’est vous qui m’avez donné le livre?… L’un d’entre vous m'a donné ce livre… en français… le vôtre? En français… L'église américaine attaque le pape… les américains… Non, le pape est attaqué par les américains… [Ed. note: he refers to the French book “How America Wanted to Change the Pope” by Nicolas Seneze of La Croix]. [A reporters’ voice: “How the Americans want to change the Pope”]. C’est le livre dont vous m'avez donné une copie. J'en avais entendu parler, je l'avais entendu parler, mais je ne l'ai pas lu. Les critiques ne proviennent pas seulement des Américains, elles sont un peu de partout, même de la curie, du moins ceux qui me le disent, qui ont l’avantage d’honnêteté de le dire, et j’aime ça. Je n'aime pas quand les critiques sont sous la table. Ils sourient, ils vous laissent voir leurs dents puis ils vous poignardent dans le dos. Ce n'est pas loyal, pas humain. La critique est un élément de construction et si votre critique n’est pas juste, vous [must be] prêt à recevoir la réponse et à dialoguer, [to have] une discussion et arriver à un point juste. C’est la dynamique de la vraie critique au lieu de la critique des pilules d’arsenic, que cet article que j’ai donné au p. Vuela parlait de – lancer la pierre mais cacher la main. Ce n’est pas nécessaire, cela n’aide pas, aidez les petits groupes fermés qui ne veulent pas entendre la réponse aux critiques. Une critique qui ne veut pas entendre la réponse jette une pierre et cache la main. Au lieu de cela, une critique juste, je pense ceci, ceci, cela… Cela est ouvert à une réponse, et vous construisez, aidez.

Avant le cas du pape, "Mais je n’aime pas cela du pape", je critique et attend la réponse, je le quitte, je parle et j’écris un article et je lui demande de répondre. C'est juste, c'est l'amour pour l'Eglise. Critiquer sans vouloir entendre la réponse et sans dialogue, ce n'est pas vouloir le bien de l'Église. C’est revenir en arrière à une idée fixe, changer le pape, changer le style, créer un schisme, c’est clair non? Une critique juste est toujours bien reçue, du moins par moi.

Deuxièmement, le problème du schisme: dans l'Église [have been] beaucoup de schismes. Après Vatican I, dernier vote, celui de l'infaillibilité, un groupe important est parti. They separated from the Church, founded the Old Catholics, to be really honest to the traditions of the Church. Then they discovered a different development and now ordain women, but in that moment they were rigid. They were going backward to an orthodoxy that they were thinking the council had gotten wrong. Another group went without voting, silent silent, but not wanting to vote.

Vatican II created these things, maybe the best known break is that of Lefebvre. There is always schismatic action in the Church, always, no? It is one of the actions that the Lord always leaves to human freedom. I don’t fear schisms, I pray they don’t exist because there’s the spiritual health of many people [to consider], right? [I pray] there will be dialogue, that there will be correction if there is some mistake, but the path of schism is not Christian.

But let’s think back to the beginning of the Church, how the Church began with many schisms, one after another, it is enough to read the history of the Church. The Arians, the Gnostics, the Monophysites, all of these. Then it comes to me to recall an anecdote that I have told a few times: it was the people of God who saved [the Church] from schisms. Schismatics always have one thing in common: they separate [themselves] from the people, from the faith of the people, from the faith of the People of God. And when, at the Council of Ephesus, there was a discussion on the maternity of Mary, the people — this is historic — were at the entrance of the cathedral and when the bishops entered for the Council, they had sticks, they showed them the sticks and yelled: “Mother of God, Mother of God.” As if to say, if you do not do this, here’s what awaits you. The People of God always mend and help.

A schism is always an elite condition of an ideology separated from doctrine. An ideology may be right, but that enters into doctrine and separates and becomes ‘doctrine’ in quotes, but for a time. For this, I pray that there are no schisms. But I am not afraid.

To help, but what I am saying now, you are not afraid I respond to criticism, I do all this, maybe if someone comes to him, something I have to do, I will do it. To help.

But this is one of the results of Vatican II. It is not from this Pope or from another Pope or that other pope. For example, the social things that I say are the same that John Paul II said, the same. I copy him. “But the Pope is very communistic, huh?” Ideologies and doctrine enter, and when the doctrine strays into ideology, there is the possibility of schism.

And also there is the behaviorist ideology, that is, the primacy of a sterile morality over the morality of the People of God, who even the pastors should guide, the flock, between grace and sin. This is evangelical morality.

Instead, a morality of ideology, such as Pelagianism, to put it that way, makes you rigid and today we have many, many schools of rigidity inside the Church. They are not schism, but they are pseudo-schismatic Christian paths that in the end finish badly. When you see rigid Christians, bishops, priests, behind them are problems; there isn’t the holiness of the Gospel. For this we should be meek, not severe, with people who are tempted by these attacks, because they are going through a problem, and we should accompany them with meekness.

Bruni: the last question is by Aura Miguel di Radio Renacenca.

Pope Francis: How was my Portuguese?

Aura Vistas Miguel (Radio Renascenca): Very good! You were understood very well. I return to the topic of Mozambique only to ask this: We know that you do not like to visit countries during electoral campaigns. Yet, you came in Mozambique one month before the election, the president who invited you being one of the candidates?

Pope Francis: It was not a mistake, it was not a mistake. It was an option freely taken. Because the electoral campaign that begins in these days took a back seat to the peace process. What was important was to visit to help to solidify the peace process.

And this is more important than an [election] that has not yet begun. It begins in these last days, at the end of my visit. And there at the limit, balancing between the two things… And then I was able to greet the political opponents, to emphasize that the important thing was that and not to root for this president whom I do not know and do not know how he thinks. I don’t even know how others think.

For me it was more important to emphasize the unity of the country. But what he said is true: we must detach ourselves from [electoral] campaigns, this is true.

Many thanks to you all, for your work, I am grateful to you for what you do. Pray for me, I will pray for you. Have a good lunch.